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我把馬英九區長在 2009.8.18 為莫拉克 (Morakot) 颱風而做的國外英文演講打出來, 供大家閱讀. 因為我是聽 Youtube 上
民視新聞的轉播來打的, 馬先生講英文的時候民視的翻譯邊用中文翻, 所以有幾個字聽不到, 敬請見諒.
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馬英九國際記者會
8/18/2009 14:50
英文文字稿
(記者會影片轉自 民視新聞 及 Youtube )
司儀: ... which will last for about 5 minutes. And after that, a Q&A session will follow.
Ma: Mr. Vice President, Mr. Vice Premiere, ministers, members of the press court, ladies and gentlemen, today I would like to say a few words before we starting to your questions. First of all, Typhoon Morakot is __ to Taiwan __ for history. The single-day reach __ 2000mm. Damage __. So far, more than 100 people passed away and many more are missing, and the damage to roads bridges, __, rice __, and fishing farm have been very serious. The damage can be as high as 100 billion NY dollars. As the president of this country, I feel that in the whole process of prevention and rescue, they are __. We have to correct and we also will be responsible for whatever mistake or neglect the government have __. But no matter what this mistakes and neglects are, it is my own responsibility, the president of this country.
So an hour ago, when I met with the local press, members of the people on the table stood up and bow to the country to demonstrate our sincere apology for failure to act faster and in a more orderly way. So in the last 10 days, ever since the beginning of the disaster, the rescuers actually have evacuated over 39000 people, and among those, more than 8800 were evacuated by helicopters. Actually, if we have had good weather, we will be able to do it faster and better, but no matter what we have done, if there are mistakes or other neglects of duty, I have the consensus that we will make a decision on punishments and maybe changes of the officials no later than early September. But at the moment, at now, to early September, we hope the rescuers and other people who have engaged in resettlement and recovery would have the __ time to do their job.
You know, many of the rescuers have worked day and night for more than 10 days, and 6 of them were accidentally killed either by the crash of the helicopter or drown in the flood; six of them. They really worked really really hard to rescue our people. So, I want people to understand that many rescue workers have done a very difficult but good job. But we certainly recognize they -- there are still many things to be desired. So we recognize that, and apologize to our people. We also want to thank the people in Taiwan, particularly in the, the people who donated and workers' volunteers to help the people in the disaster area. So this is a very sad moment for Taiwan, but on the other hand, this is also the moment people in Taiwan feel as we are one family. I really also want to thank the international community for having receive donations from like Japan, Singapore, and __ from Mainland China. There are actually 59 countries which have demonstrated the willingness to help us. We feel we are not alone. We live in a global village. This is our true feelings(?).
So what to do in the future, we have reveal the disaster prevention and rescue mechanisms and believe that we should transform the current Fire Fighter Department to a Disaster Prevention and Rescue Demonstration. We will provide more personal fire budget, and to set up branch offices in counties in order to establish an elaborate system of disaster prevention and rescue. In addition to that, in the future, the armed forces of this country will have disaster prevention and rescue as their main job (注意: 國軍的主要任務將不是保衛國家). So they have to change the strategy, the tactics, their personnel arrangements, their budget, and their equipments in order to gear to the needs of disaster prevention and rescue. We are now purchasing 60 Black Hawk helicopters and we have decided to take 15 out and use that money -- roughly 300 million USD -- to purchase helicopters for disaster relief and other equipment.
And there's another area of important is the disaster prevention, particularly, evacuation. This has play an important role in Typhoon Morakot. Because out of the seven counties that were hard-hit by the disaster, at least 3 have effectively (正確: efficiently, "有效率的") evacuated thousands of people who have avoided the fate of disaster and reach safe places. So this is something we will continue to do, to teach, to educate, and to train our citizens that in case of warning, they should follow the arrangement of government to evacuate to prevent the happening of disaster. Another point is that for the celebrations of our National Day on October the 10th, we will cancel all the celebration activities and my originally scheduled trip to the South Pacific islands will also be cancelled.
Now, we have enter a new phase of disaster relief, uh, relief, that is resettlement and recovery. We have already announced many welfare arrangement for people affected by this disaster, so we will try our best to do a better job than the rescue work, which have been criticized to be too slow and too disorderly. Certainly, we will do our job right this time. Thank you very much.
司儀: Thank you Mr. President. One quick note before we move into next stage. Please identify yourself by say your name and organization before asking the question, and please present the question as clearly and loudly as possible. And now the floor is open. First max(?) from TFCC.
TFCC: Mr. President, thank you for your time today, my name is Max Ersh from the Taiwan Foreign Correspondence Club. Sir, we have heard you criticize the Weather Bureau for failing to accurately predict the amount of rain fall. We've heard you criticize local-level governments. We've also heard remarks that were widely interpreted as you were blaming affected villagers for not understanding, not realizing how seriously the storm was before it was hit, even though of course the Weather Bureau itself didn't know that. And now the message is whether the weather is to blame. Given these inconsistencies and also the apparent flip-flopping of your government on the issue of international assistance, there seems to be a track record for inconsistencies. There are also scheduling issues for example, last week at the height of the crisis that you were still hosting APPU in Taipei, and more importantly on Saturday as the nation begins warning as rescue and relief operations were still very much under way, you thought it was a good idea to go to a baseball game. Sir, criticisms about that inter-nation's most desperate hour when it most needed you to project an image of strong, decisive, and compassionate leader that you're __, and so my question is, in your mind, as a ___, is your leadership strong, or is it weak? How would you rate your OWN leadership abilities? Are you a weak leader? Or are you a strong leader?
My next question is for Vice President Hsiao. With the exception of the national security meeting and today's press conference, you've been conspicuously absent from the public eye. This is an acute concern and may be one of the worst weather disasters of Taiwan's history. In fact, you've been conspicuously absent from public eye since you're discharged from the hospital. So my next question is to you, Mr. VP Hsiao: Are you healthy enough, are you physically fit enough, to execute the duties of the office as the Vice President?
Ma: If I understand your question correctly, you first mentioned the weather factor, right?
TFCC: [inaudible]
Ma: Would you please repeat it slowly?
TFCC: The point that I wanted to make was the apparent inconsistencies and your explanations of the government's slow response. My question is, how would you rate your own leadership abilities? Have you categorize your leadership and amid this disaster, this crisis: As strong, or otherwise?
Ma: I think we have – I have exercise strong leadership throughout the process by ordering the armed forces to increase their participation in the disaster rescue operation. You see, this operation is maybe different from other types of natural disaster in that beginning on the 8th of August, heavy rain continued for a couple days. That have effectively slowed down the operation of the members of the armed forces. I am personally witnessed the change. Look at what happened to Kaohsiung County when we've started airlift by helicopters. We started the service from 8/9 to 15th, and in the first 4 days, because of the bad weather, we were able to airlift only 1500, but from 8/13 to 15, we were able to airlift 6000. I am trying to, is, that, it does play a role.
TFCC: That is very clear. What about the question posted to VP Hsiao?
Hsiao: Am I correct to understand that your question is that what kind of role am I playing?
TFCC: My question is that you have been conspicuously absent from public view, particularly at a time that the nation needs a projection, an image, that involved hard-working government. And so my question to you, sir, with all due respect, has your absence __ to your health?
Hsiao: 對. Well, I think probably you know that I have the operation, a surgery, my cancer, my lung cancer two months ago. So by the advice of my doctor, I cannot engage or participate in any public action for two to three months, so this is the reason why I have not actively participate ___ of this rescue operation. But despite of that, I have been coming to office every day and sit in all kinds of meeting and __ advice president and all government official, so my, we are sorry that we could not go to the place.. join.. on the spot, rescue operation, which very much sorry about that. But it doesn't mean that I do not concern or it or not worry about this situation. So, again, my feeling is send for our people. Thank you.
Time: Nathalie Sou, Time Magazine. I have two questions. The first is, what exactly is going on the first 3 days of the typhoon, because it was said that government acting too slow __ was it that there was no ___ what was happening to the villages, can you explain what was going on? ___ Can you explain what was going on? Secondly, there has been a lot of public sentiment whether internationally or domestically that, you know, there was no good leadership at this time. Why do you think there's such a strong sentiment against your leadership at this time?
Ma: As I said earlier, in the first 2 or 3 days, the heavy rain prevented the rescuers from having access to the mountain area. We still tried our best to ask the helicopter pilots to fly, but to be very honest, those situation are pretty dangerous, and actually one such helicopter crashed as the result. That's why we have to slow down the action, trying to find comparatively better weather and then go in to airlift the people affected. But beginning on the 13th of august, when the sky turned clean, just in a single day, we were able to evacuate 2210, which is more than the evacuation of the previous 4 days. So this is exactly because of the weather. We were not blaming only the weather, but this is a fact, I have to let you know.
Another question was about the people's complaint about the slowness of the action. Of course, it is in part due to flooding, but normal infantry cannot reach them without boats or other amphibious vehicles. This also slowed down. But once when the weather become better, we were better able to do a rescue job. So we admit that this is something that we have to correct in the future. Given bad weather or heavy rain, we still have to move fast, but again, if it comes to questions of helicopter, no, this is something, some difficulty we could try to __ very, very difficult to overcome. Otherwise, we may incur more casualtisisms (沒此字. 正確: casualties).
Financial Times: Mr. President, Robin Huang from the Financial Times. I have two questions. The first is that you see that the operations are now moving into a new phase, resettlement and reconstruction. My question is, what targets do you have for this phase, and also what lessons have you learned from missteps in the previous phase that you will apply to this new phase of operation. And my second question is that even before this disaster has struck your government faces one of the biggest deficit next year because of the financial crisis. Will this deficit limit the resources that you have for that reconstruction, and also, will your government need to raise new money to finance reconstruction, and how much will that be? Thank you.
Ma: Thank you. For resettlement and reconstruction we have asked government legislature for special budget of more than 70 billion NT dollars in order to fill the void because parliament can only assure 40 billion, so we need another 30 billion. As to the question how much damage the disaster has done to our economy, two days from now our budget office will make announcements on how much the damage will be. It is generally estimated that there will be damage to this 3rd quarter of this year, but how much is now being calculated. Thank you.
Financial Times: [inaudible question]
Um, well, you see, we ____ experience of dealing with the earthquake so we understand how important ___ are, and this time we have elaborate plans to do that. We offer rent subsidy which people could use that to move into a rental apartment right away before we construct shelters or other living quarters for them, so we have just begun that yesterday and today ____ in all the 53 centers for the disaster people to see what the wishes are and where to act accordingly so we expect to see ___ quick responses from the people who need shelters.
China News Asia: Mr. President, this is Christina Lo from China News Asia Singapore. Proceeding from this gentleman's question, I want to know that how can you and your government apply this experience to prevent future catastrophe as this is only the first time ___ in Taiwan this year. There are plenty to come, so what is your strategies for the moment __?
Ma: Ok. This is actually the first time we have disaster of this magnitude after the passing of the Disaster Prevention and Rescue Act. So, as I said earlier, we will make some changes of the current system to make the agency even more efficient. On the other hand, we have attached more importance in relocation. You can't really fight the nature. Whenever there is mudslide, the only way out is ___ be the major work of this demonstration in the next couple of months because we're still in the typhoon season. The typhoon season will not end until mid-November, so in the next couple of months we will continue to do that, as I said, to train people, educate people, and to have exercise. And we have to identify different villagers in mountainous area whether they are suitable for human habitation. Now we will encourage them to leave. In emergency situations we may actually take strong actions to __ and the experiences this time showed very clearly that if we do the evacuation right, we will greatly reduce the fatalities of this disaster.
AP: Sir, you said about the ___ ago, the armed forces, I'm quoting, the armed forces will have disaster prevention and rescue as their main job from now on. Does that mean that as the result of the Typhoon Morakot, the Taiwanese armed forces, under your instruction, are changing its 60-year mission of first and foremost acting as a self-defense force against a possible attack from Mainland China?
Ma: Well, now as a result of climate change, disasters like Morakot [is] not that unusual now. So we have to be prepared for the worst. The armed forces have already participated in the disaster prevention and rescue, but what we're trying to do is to ask those troops who are now stationed in we, in the five, in what we called “combat areas” in Taiwan, will stay there and try to do a better job in terms of disaster prevention. In other words, their job of course is to defend Taiwan, but now, our enemy is not necessarily the people across the Taiwan Strait, but nature. So we have to do things that will prevent the further or more casualties as a result of this disaster, and they have to reorient the strategies, tactics, their equipments, or whatever, in order to make them a better able to do the job. This will be important change, because the armed forces already participate but now we ask them to do more. They will include in their schedule a very important job of disaster prevention and rescue.
SNA: Francisco Perry from Spanish News Agency, FM. Mr. President, what roles did politics play in the all these process, because some people have been talking about that you didn't accept the help of US in the fear of Mainland China that there might also have been some miscommunications and conflicts between the central government and local government, and/or any other __ the in this criticism to the government that might think that this is somehow politically motivated or.. so, What role has politics, internationally and domestic politics, play in this __ people want to say that __ ask for opinion of previous officials or people with previous experience to handle this __ corporation and whether.. The question is, what role, the government has talked to foreigner officials and people from other political parties to get corporations, there has been some problems with the local governments.
Ma: Thank you for the question. I think it is very important for a close corporation between the central and the local government. This time as I mentioned earlier, there are at least three or four local governments which have closely cooperate with the central government in the evacuation of the residents of their respective counties and that saved thousands of lives, so this is something that we will continue to encourage other counties which have not done this during this disaster. So you're right, the central government has __ to make laws and to set policy, and also in time of emergency, for instance, our agriculture department will identify certain areas as what we called “red alarm.” If that becomes a reality, people there require to evacuate because mudslide will probably come in a couple hours. So this mechanism will be strengthened in the future. And more education and exercise are needed in order to implement that in the end. Thank you.
Actually, ten years ago, we had the worst earthquake in Taiwan, so in some of the area affected by the earthquake such as Nantou, they learned the experience and did real well this time.
右邊的陳部長: 救災阿是我們的中心任務之一, 因為我們在平時呢, 就是台灣是天災很多的, 必須要把這救災列進去才能夠克服遭受到損害以後把 [損害] 減到最少, 但是我們中心最重要還是保為我們國家的安全, 所以這個是一個重點, 假如國家沒有安全一切都沒有 特別做一個澄清. 謝謝.
SMT: Andrew Nicos from Spring Mass Television. Mentioned that Global Warming is very much responsible for what's happening. We're seeing more and more typhoons -- stronger typhoons coming in. You mentioned that the culture, areas, a lot of the agricultural areas from ___ animal farming __ farming practices. So we also know that global warming is something that's happening all around. What measures have Taiwan taken towards reducing their inputs towards global warming, and what measures have they taken to help to prevent the disasters from global warming other from the ones you've already mentioned?
Ma: I think you're right. In pointing out the importance of global warming and we are drafting a piece of legislation called Homeland Planning Act, which will divide the country into different regions or __ . Some of them may not be suitable for human habitation. If that happens, then people living there may have to be evacuated. This is very difficult in this country, particularly in the indigenous groups, because they have lived there for hundreds of years and they usually have a aboard idea of living. We have to, you know, do a lot of education and make sort of a surrounding arrangements to make sure that __. You're right; we attach a lot of importance to the factors of global warming and we also believe disaster cannot be effective prevented. It can only be mitigated. So today many people talk about disaster mini instead of prevention. But as I said, for mudslide, or other similar landslide, the actually the most effective way is relocation, as it is really difficult really to prevent. So you're right. Thank you for the question.
Taipei Times: [inaudible] from Taipei Times. Mr. President, it is mentioned that you think that you demonstrated strong leadership __ strong sentiment against your leadership. it is hard not to make a comparison between Typhoon in America and Hurricane Katrina. So do you think that is a fair comparison? Secondly, we know that foreign affairs, national defense, and cross-strait affairs are under your jurisdiction. Your talks about China's interference in administration's delay in appealing for foreign aid. What do you say the allegation? Do you waited until Beijing agreed to donate money before you asked for international assistance? Does China play a role in the government's decision-making process? What was the Government's immediate reaction to Washington's and Japan's offer of help? Die the National Security Council advice you on the matter? Thank you.
Ma: Well, I exercise strong leadership not necessarily in the face of media because we are working actually by the system instead of by individual. So what we did regarding this disaster may be different from my predecessors did during the earthquake because ahead of time, there wasn't any system of disaster prevention and rescue. But after the earthquake, a whole new elaborated system is established, so we worked within the system. Secondly, you question about assistance from international community and from mainland China. Well, we consider this assistance humanitarian and we don't politicize this assistance, so whatever the assistance are we will take that attitude. And for instance, we did accept the United States, Japan, Singapore, and mainland China. We also accept donations of materials of other supplies from Australia, from Germany, from many other countries. We don't have any political, sort of attitude towards these donations. They are purely humanitarian.
Taipei Times: [inaudible]
Ma: I'm sorry, I can't hear you.
Taipei Times: Did China play a role in your decision-making process?
Ma: [5-second pause] No. Not at all. Not at all.
We actually welcome all international assistance dating back 10 years ago when earthquake struck Taiwan.
Reuters: From Reuters, two questions. What do you think the total number of deaths will be from this typhoon in the very end, and also this morning – or it may be it have been last night – the deputy of foreign minister offered to resign, and apparently that decision whether to allow him to resign rests with you, and what will you do, will you let him resign?
Ma: Up to now, the death toll is 127, but in JiaShien County, because of the mudslide, hundreds of people were missing and could have died, but we don't know yet, so the total death toll and missing have reached 434. But in our official records, the death total is 127. And with the resignation of the political vice minister of Foreign Affairs is that it was him to approved the letter to our foreign missions(?) that we will accept donations but we will at the moment not accept other materials and this is contrary to our policy, and when I announce on August 13th that we welcome foreign assistance and we have received donations from at least 4 countries and regions, I didn't even know the existence of such a telegram. That is why we decided that he should be responsible for this __ duty.
Reuters: [inaudible]
Ma: Excuse me, I can't hear you.
Reuters: Sorry, will Xia Li Yen indeed leave the foreign ministry? Have you approved his resignation?
Ma: [confused]
Reuters: [馬英文聽不懂, 外國記者改用中文問]他有請辭, 那你有批准?
Ma: 蛤? 什麼? 我不聽懂你在說什麼? [Asking other officials for question] 廖次長會不會批准阿? [Received the question on a sheet of paper] I think the resignation is now in the Premiere's desk. I believe he will approve it.
Pablo: Alright, Mr. President, Pablo Wang from ___. I actually have two questions. First of all, how would you rate your, the whole cabinet's performance during this disaster? From 1 to 10, what would be YOUR mark be this time? And second of all, depending on your answer, do you think it's necessary as a public is demanding, to make a reshuffle of the cabinet?
Ma: A while ago I mentioned that we will have a review of the performance of the government to make sure, to identify the mistakes and the __ duties, __, and we will start the investigation and punishment process. So there will be no later than early September to start that action. So this is what we have – what I have the consensus with the Premiere. So that's probably the time for that action on the review. So it's about just two weeks from now.
Pablo: But how would you rate yourself, the performance of the government, and how do you see the performance of the government against the public reception, which is more negative than positive?
Ma: I understand that people do have criticism of this __. But as I said earlier, there are lots of things that are desired, so we will continue to review, and make whatever corrections needed to make us more efficient, and particularly in regards to the resettlement and reconstruction, there will require even more resources to support, and that will determine the success or failure of the whole operation. It's relatively compared to resettlement and reconstruction to rescue people to or to evacuate these from the __ area, the relatively __ to feed them, to educate them, and to make the living what is horrible one is more difficult so this time we can see whether this government is able enough to do the job right, so we have from every __ to do it right.
Ok, the Vice Premiere wants to make a correction on the death toll.
Vice Premier: Well I just want to make a clarification about the how many people. The president just mentioned that there are total 434 people died, but that's including people already died and the people are missing. Those two together, 434, but the people died, is 127, and the JiaHsien area, 248 is the count of people missing. Thank you.
Bloomberg: President Ma, Tim Calpin from Bloomberg News. You mentioned that the government need to raise another further 70 billion NTD. Can you tell us how would you do that, would you consider selling some more government bonds, would you consider selling stakes, and Taiwan government owned enterprises, or do you have other plans to raise money to fund these __. And, since you will need to spend some time looking more domestically at rebuilding, recovery, and of course having a new look at your cabinets, will there be any changes in your cross-strait policy? There has been a lot of warning, a lot of meeting, and of course, the Taiwan __ more likely __ .
Ma: The source of our budget will probably comes from that, the borrowing, at the moment, the percentage of our debt surplus accounts for 32% of the GDP in the last 3 years. And the ceiling is 40%, so we still have some room for borrowing. And, as I said, we need roughly 70 billion NT dollars for the resettlement and recovery.
Your second question is related to cross-strait relations. Well, the natural disaster obviously has nothing to do with cross-strait relations, but last year, when in China, as the worst earthquake in their history, Taiwanese people demonstrated a lot of passion in raising __, is a -- 58億我記得 -- 5.8 billion NT dollars, for the donation. Even today, there are NGOs from Taiwan working in 四川 for the people over there. This time, Mainland China not only donated money but also materials like sleeping bags and shelters to Taiwan. So obviously, in terms of disaster relief, there's something in common: we care about each other. Now that is just a normal development in the past. Actually even before, the resumptions of negotiations last year, we have done that in previous years. I remember in early 1990s when there was a flood in Mainland China, I was the Vice Chairman of the Mainland ___ Council. We did donate rice and shelters to Mainland China through their Red Cross Association.
Chris: Mr. President, ___ Asia, Chris Liao. 我直接用中文問這個問題, avoid the translation problem. 就是最近幾天你一再強調你是台灣的總統, 你會take full responsibility, 幾天來你一直強調這個問題, 就是這裡衍生了兩個問題: 如果最後震災的責任追就到你的決策有問題或者你本人的時候, 你怎麼去punish你self? 這第二個問題我們看到最近有一個很反常的民調, 就是要求台灣的總統下台. 這是一個很奇怪的東西. 我們看到川震的時候沒有人有民調要求溫家寶或胡錦濤下台; 烏魯木齊跟西藏事件的時候也沒有人要求胡錦濤下台. 為什麼這件事情會發生在你的身上? 你覺得是你的性格引起了人家覺對有這個機會呢, 還是因為你的外交修兵政策引來了這個衍生的後果, 覺得台灣就是可以被欺負或者台灣軟弱, 所以這個總統你怎麼去, 這個full responsibility, 怎麼去捍衛台灣的主權?
Ma: Well, the question is about whether there is mistake in my decision-making process. So far, throughout the disaster prevention and rescue, I think the general policy of the government was correct. We implement prevention measures by asking the local government to try their best to evacuate people __ the area, and we are trying to help them as much as we could, but unfortunately was delayed by very bad weather because rain continued to pour in on the first couple of days, as I said earlier. As president of this country, I certainly have to take full responsibility for whatever happened, whatever done by the government. So this is the general and political responsibility which, once I am become the president, I have to resume.
Secondly, I don't know the background of public opinion surveys by foreign media, but I don't think that has anything to do with my style or decision making. This is a free country; everyone can do opinion polls as they wish. I don't know whether that can be done on Mainland China, probably not, but certainly whatever the result of the opinion polls, I certainly will have to reveal what I have done, what decision I have made, to see whether there is a neglect of duty or mistake. So that gives me the opportunity to think more about my presidency, so I wouldn’t ___. In this regard, I certainly will do what I just said.
Asahi新聞: Thank you, Mr. President, my name is Nogima, a correspondent from Asahi shinbun. 我用中文問. 我有兩個問題, 第一個問題是剛剛的中文記者會裡面總統總覺得民眾對政府不滿意的兩個原因, 一個是速度太慢, 另一個是比較亂, 可是你要不要再加另一個原因, 就是民眾對你表現的失望, 因為可能你會說你已經盡力了, 可是至少我們感覺到民眾覺得總統你沒有跟他們在一起. 那我的問題是, 總統你覺得為什麼人們會有這種認知, 這是第一個問題.
Ma: [cut off by news anchor] … emergency order. That has to do with the improper communication between different ___ , so we have to focus on the problem and whether we should issue the emergency order, this really is not the key. So I think in the future, we will strengthen the organizations as I just mentioned – the Disaster Prevention and Rescue Agency to make it stronger. This is much more important than issuing an emergency ___. Those could be reserved for the time of war. So this is my understanding of the system, and I think it is very important for the president to respect the system and follow that around as it is required.
司儀: Well I think we only got 5 more minutes to go, so we will have time for one last question.
Defense News: President Ma, I Juan Dominic from the Defense News. You said you are going to reduce the number of Black Hawks from 60 to 45. Wouldn't it be good to just get to 60 and reduce the number of patching helicopters or even reduce the number of missiles, which you will never use? That makes more sense to me. And who initiated the contact with the US Military?
Ma: 那個 陳部長, 這個要不要做個說明, 就是我們買那個黑鷹直升機阿, 從60架變六十五架.
右邊的陳部長: 我做個說明. 因為現在, 那個天災很多 所以救災這種機會非常的多, 所以總統 __ 檢討相關的預算, 能夠把部分來採購救災的裝備. 因為我們的Apatch(?) 已經跟美國簽過xx書了, 所以要改的話非常困難. __ 因為現在還在美國政府意志中 __ 我們透過美國把這個訊息傳授給他, 獲得立法院的同意 __ 其實在有關我們救災的裝備呢, 我們在99, 100, 101年當中編了七億多, 在99年我們編了四億多的預算, __ 將來我們能夠把黑鷹直升機減到十五架以後對我們的戰備沒有影響 __ ... [cut off by anchor]
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